Ep 125: Wanna Nail Your Brand? Ask These Questions

Alright ladies, this is our March office hour with Kayla on copywriting. And I’m so excited to dive in because Kayla has been gracious enough to say, let me go through some of the questions that I asked my clients. And let me let me tell you a Kayla, kind of what’s going on. I’m going to be hosting a beach retreat. starting April 11, it’s coming up. I feel like it’s literally going to the corner. Yeah. One of the things that I have the ladies doing is, hey, ladies, this is all about social media and marketing. And so you need to know your brand, you need to have a brand that’s clearly defined, you need your messaging that’s clearly defined. And there, they’re struggling with that. And so for that reason, among 1000 others, I know this is going to be invaluable.

So I’m excited to welcome you and dive on in. Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks so much, Judy. And I know when you mentioned like, Can we walk through almost a questionnaire or some of those questions that you ask clients, and I thought that that was such a fantastic place to start, because I wouldn’t even feel comfortable starting to write copy for my clients without knowing some of these like key foundational points. So like you’re saying, it’s not necessarily just if you work with a copywriter, like you can still be DIY in a lot of these things, depending on kind of what your business looks like right now. But I love this emphasis on making sure the foundation is strong, because it’s only going to create better branding, better messaging, better social media content, all those things that you’re talking about, because it all is going to be kind of dipping into that initial foundation that you’re creating. So that’s why I love that we’re able to talk about these things.

Typically what I do inside my own questionnaire, I have kind of like three very specific sections on some sections are going to be a little bit more specific to some things than others. So in the end, I think that it’ll all be helpful. But I like to look at it as your brand foundation first. And then after that, of course, because I’m a website copywriter, I like to really dig into your website, because I see that as your central hub. So I’m going to have some questions around that for people to be able to look at. And then the final thing I think is really valuable for so many people because we go through brand voice, and brand voice seems to be this thing that everybody has a hard time defining. And we talk all the time, right? So it feels like we should have a good idea of our voice. But actually putting it into writing can sometimes be tricky. So that’s why I have a few questions around that as well. So I can share my screen and we can be off to the races.

So what I’m thinking for just the formatting of this, especially if there are people that join in live here to along the way is I’m going to walk through each of the specific sections, kind of let people know the reasoning. Why behind, like why it’s helpful to me as a copywriter, but also just in general, why it’s good for you to be able to know some of these answers, and just kind of giving some prompts and some extra things to think about as we’re going through these questions. So I can also share this Google Doc inside the inside the Facebook group so that if you know you don’t necessarily want to take all of the notes during this time, you can just reference the document. But I think it’ll be helpful maybe as we’re walking through if there’s something that I say that you can jot down that note for later, as I’m watching.

Why it’s good. That is so good. And again, I’m so impressed. You’ve been doing this for more than five years. I think he said six years. You are you know, focused on being strategic and smart. You know, we don’t need to work hard. We need to work smart. And so I’m so excited. I am like a sponge. Let me just say, right now, Kayla, so awesome. Well, I’m going to share my screen and we will get started, which will be great. Yay. Awesome. Here. I’m just going to make sure Judy can see this and we should be good. On my side. We are good. Okay, awesome. So the first things again, we’re talking about the brand Foundation, we’re talking about the basics. So one of the first things that we always say, in the business world in the marketing world is trying to understand what your purpose, your mission, your why all of those kind of interchangeable terms are. And the reason why that’s of course important is because it not only has to do with your own personal mission, because we all have some sort of inspiration behind why we have the business that we have today.

It might be something that’s evolved over time. But it’s still a really good thing for you to be able to define clearly. But the greatest brands are the ones that have a purpose and a mission. Of course, it’s going to relate to a target audience. And so we’re going to dig in a little bit more into target audience stuff a little bit later. But it’s really great sometimes for my clients who maybe don’t have a super clear mission statement or they might be struggling with it. I will say mission statements although it’s a very important part of your kind of messaging framework in general. It can be a difficult one to nail down and others A lot of times, it’ll slightly be tweaked or edited or evolved over time, too. So just to kind of help you put it into other terms, I like to also ask my clients like, what is your purpose as a brand? Like, why do you exist? What is it that you’re offering to people? Why should people care about it, and when you’re able to write it kind of just in paragraph form, or even bullet points, depending on what works best for you, then you can start to pull out some of those pieces that are really great for a mission statement. And I think at some point, it would be really fun to walk people through when we have maybe another month in the future walking you through like a mission statement framework and being able to put all the different pieces and, and kind of work through that.

But for now, we’ll kind of leave it there and keep moving on. Another thing that might be helpful to you as well is trying to list out like 10 different adjectives or words or anything that seems like it is going to describe you your brand or your experience. And one of the parts that I really like about this is the experience part because I think so many times we think about how our brand looks or how we want people to see us as a collaborator, and all of those things are really good too. But you want to talk about the overall experience. Because we know at the end of the day, no matter if you have a service or a product, you have some sort of larger experience that you are wanting to communicate the value of, even if it’s not always something that is completely tangible, like the deliverable that you get, at the end of the day, it’s still something that will be so incredible for you to talk about all the different ways that you either collaborate with people, or share your content and what you educate people about how you equip them for whatever it is that’s coming next, all of those things are good to think about. So make a list of those 10 adjectives, that’s a great place to start, it’s always really impactful for me to as a copywriter to see the adjectives because somebody’s mission statement might say something different. And then when I get into the adjectives, I go Oh, so this is actually the vibe that you want to have. So it’s kind of a fun way to be able to understand a little bit more of the vibe that people want to have.

Now this is no good. Can I just say this? So good. And I just want to interject one of the things that God gave to me in the last week even was an emphasis on client, customer, people experience that it’s not about the tech, it’s about how are you impacting with people. And so when you’re talking about brand experience, I feel like God say but elevate that, okay, there’s so much out there, if you really want to impact people and be seen and be talked about, you’ve got to elevate your experience. So I am loving this. Yes, ma’am. like them? Yeah.

And I love thinking about kind of like what you’re saying, Judy, I’ve been really trying to think about how to help a lot of my clients who are especially service providers who are deep into the experience of kind of the everyday work that they’re able to do with their clients and helping them to put into words, how they thoughtfully guide their clients through the whole process. So again, it doesn’t end up becoming just about like kind of the final project that you end up with, or even just this specific tasks that you’re checking off. But it’s that like, again, it’s that intangible overall experience. And I think you’ve probably found to Judy, that while people want to be able to get their end result, and that’s usually why they’re coming to you the experiences, the thing that they’re going to want to tell their friends about is the thing that they’re going to be raving about. And a lot of times it almost becomes the unexpected factor that just sweetens the deal of the whole entire process.

Hmm, absolutely. Yes, that is so good. Awesome. So the next question has a little bit more to do with your core values, I typically recommend having three to five, four to five is usually my sweet spot with clients when I’m creating brand voice guides. But it really depends on your specific brand. So I have seen people have core values that go like eight to 10. And that feels like a lot, you can have that many values, of course. But when we’re talking about the core values, we really want to condense it down. So it can be a really great exercise to do. One thing that I recommend people doing, if they’re starting completely from scratch from this is just writing down all of the things that you value in a span of about maybe like five to 10 minutes, you’re probably going to come up with a list of a lot of words, and then from there, condense it down to 10. And that’s going to be pretty tough, especially if you start with a pretty long list, but it’s going to help you get started with really narrowing it down, and then taking a step away from it and then coming back again and then narrowing it down to five. And that’s also difficult, but it’s gonna help you again establish Okay, what are those kind of overall values that I use in my work, but then what are the core values that are not only about your brand, but hopefully those core values are really going to connect with the people that you’re working with. So let’s say one of your core values is creativity.

Well, you’re probably going to have maybe some people in your audience that are very creative thinkers, right brained professionals, artists, some thing like that for core value would work for you plus them or even innovation, right? Maybe that’s something where you’re dealing with a lot of tech and tools and software, that would be a really great core value, or even inclusivity, especially right now with what’s happening in the world. That can be a really great core value, if you want to make sure that people know even beyond your Diversity, Equity and Inclusion statement, that inclusivity is extremely important to you. So those are just a few examples. But um, another thing that I will recommend doing, when we’re talking about the the core values is make a, like a synopsis, basically, or a summary of what that core value actually means to you. The reason why is because it’s so common for people to tell me, okay, my core values are collaboration, community and creativity, let’s say something like that. But those words are going to mean something different to not only you, but to your audience, and then also to your overall brand experience, then maybe somebody who’s a competitor who has the same words picked out.

So that’s why I say okay, the words are a really great place to start, especially when we’re narrowing things down. But if you can talk a little bit more about what those actually represent and mean to you and start to put that into words. Those are things that you can also repurpose on your about page, if you want to be able to make sure that people know your core values. Or you could use that text in other areas of your business, whether it’s social media content, blog posts, all of those things. So I’d love to hear from you to Judy, How have your core values evolved over time and your understanding of them, and maybe there’s a specific role that they’ve played in your business to that is so good, I have 10 core values, and I have it on a PDF, and I defined each one. So with this, I want to go back and I want to see Can I really choose the top five,

I’m very interested to see what happens. And of course, like, right, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a rule. But I think when we’re talking about the core part of it, sometimes it can be helpful to just really kind of narrow it down. And sometimes what I have found with clients actually is that, let’s say something like collaboration and community, like we said, there’s a way to write that inside that little summary that we were talking about where those can actually kind of mean the same thing. So you might be able to find some core values where you can almost start combining them into something that that represents all of those things combined.

This is so good. One question that comes to mind is, so many of my clients, you know, we love the Lord. We’re all about integrity and service. And sometimes my knee jerk reaction is well, it’s too common. Tell me something more specifically, like what is your bent on it? But I guess that’s not really a core value per se, that’s getting more to a brand position. Yes, absolutely.

Yep. And kind of the the words that we use, like you’re saying brand positioning, value, proposition, and your differentiators, all of those types of things. It’s a little bit later in here, but but you are right, that is something that’s really good to think about. Because once you understand kind of what your mission and what the heart so to speak is of of your business with those core values, too, it’s going to be a lot easier for you to be able to start thinking about Okay, now that I know what my brand is all about, how do I position it depending on the market that I want to be in, right? Because if you are serving a high end market, that’s going to need a very different positioning than a market where maybe it’s a lot of di wires that you’re educating and kind of everything in between. So yeah, that’s kind of where peson positioning comes in a little bit more to Yeah, I think that’s pivotal. So this is so good. Okay, great. Awesome.

Yay. And then I think, especially as believers having this question of like, what do you want to be known for? Or remembered for? I know, even when I personally look at this question, I feel like Oh, right, because that kind of hits on more of our legacy work. And for a lot of us, we have a very deep reason as to why we started the business that we do. We’re not just in this for the accolades, or the finances, or all of those other things that a lot of times we see in the world, we’re here to really make a difference. But all of us are doing that in very different ways with the different services and products that we’re offering. And so I think being able to bring in not necessarily just the like, Okay, what is it that you do, but bringing in even more of that deeper personal reason as to why it is that you’re doing this work, and how you want to be known, can be a really impactful place to just kind of sit To be honest, I usually use a question like this as a journaling prompt, rather than just kind of treating it as any other question on this list. Because it’s, it’s a big, it’s a big thing. And one of the reasons why I like asking this as a copywriter with my clients, too, is that you’re able to see the more future vision of what people have because a lot of times we’re working on something that maybe is You know, a plan that they have for a year, two, maybe three years down the road, and they want their website to be able to accurately reflect all of those changes that they’re gonna be making to their business.

But when we’re talking about what you want to be known for remembered for, that’s a very, like, vision focus thing to be talking about. And so it really helps me to know what are some of those steps along the path that’s wait even beyond the work that we’re doing? that’s already been clarified by that person so that when I know that, then I’m able to say, Okay, how are there ways where maybe we can strategically weave in parts of your vision into this while still making sure that it accurately represents where you’re coming from right now, too. Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I’m sure you’re going to get to this, but I just wanted to throw this out.

Now, yes, there are women here in the academy. And a bunch of the women here in the academy are going to be with me in Florida at the beach retreat. And just as a reminder there, they’re going to be getting their social media content on they’re going to be going on their number one marketing strategy. And so as I’m telling them to do this pre work, one of the things I’m getting is pushback on, I guess, clarity, like Chris, clarity on well, and you’re about to talk about what sets you apart from your competitors. And you know, what makes you different? So, what would be your best advice for us di wires, right? That they haven’t yet hired a professional like yourself? How do I really get comfortable with deciding, like, like, deciding, like, this is where I see my brand now, and I’m okay with that it may evolve. Yeah, I’d love you to speak to that.

Absolutely. Um, so I think, of course, what we have that the world doesn’t have as the Holy Spirit as, as our guide, it is unbelievable, even just to me, I really do see God as as leading my business. But it’s still so fascinating how many times we can still act as if day to day in our business, that we can’t even pray about some of those things. And it’s just really amazing to remember that we have that. But to make it a little bit more practical and tangible. Something that I’ve been doing in my business, especially over the last few years. And something that I try to help my clients with too, is thinking about, okay, we all have all these different ideas, all these things we want to be known for remembered for all of that. But of course, we only have so many hours in the day, only so much time that we can spend on all of them without completely burning ourselves out, especially for those of us who have been through burnout, myself included, that can be a hard place to be. So what I really recommend doing is doing things in phases. So understanding like you’re saying, Judy, that, you know, maybe you have this really large idea that you feel like it’s going to be part of your legacy work.

But none of that can happen again, with some of these foundational things that are in practice. And even as you’re going through this list, the more confident that you are in it. And the more clarity that you have, the more you’re even going to feel more comfortable making those investments or moving into the other phases that allow you to just bring you the confidence to be able to do the type of legacy work you want to do. But it doesn’t necessarily always start from day one, you know, because we’re still trying to sometimes prove to ourselves, is this product in in service, even something that my audience needs? Does it seem like it’s at a good price point? Does it feel like it’s got all the things included? that people are really loving? Am I getting great reviews, and testimonials, all of those things are really great preliminary things to be testing and experimenting with in the background before you get into some of those things. So I’m hoping when people are thinking about clarity, they remember that all of the beginning work, as we would say, is only going to help you in the future, right?

Like you can’t actually get to where you want to go without doing the experimentation and the testing and the place where you’re actually going to learn a lot. And I do believe that’s a place where you’re going to be humbled. It’s so fascinating to me, every time that I I make an assumption about what my audience needs. And I actually ask them, and then all of a sudden you gain clarity. And you go, Oh, I do not know as much as I thought I did.
Right? Yeah, we know so much. But like our markets are constantly evolving. Our audience members, their needs are really evolving, too. And so just one last thing to Judy, and maybe even something that people at the retreat can think about doing before they go is either sending out a survey doing some personal interviews, I really love personal interviews because it just makes it a lot more specific to a person rather than treating everybody as like, oh, okay, I’m just kind of getting a spreadsheet of people’s answers.

It really allows you to talk with people. conversationally, we talked about how we’re all really relational. So it really can help to make those connections with your audience to show how much you care. And I always recommend giving them some of your something that I’ve done is giving them some of my consulting time. So I try To say, Okay, if you give me 15 minutes of your time, I’ll give you 15 minutes of my time to answer any questions that you may have. So that it doesn’t feel like I’m just asking them, I’m also giving them something in return. And I have found that almost always I’m going to be able to get better responses that way, too. So there’s different ways to get clarity. I know that a lot of different recommendations. But that’s, that’s, yeah, what I’m thinking I love it because human connection, person to person is, it’s invaluable. So that we really, what we think we know about our peeps are really what they’re looking for.

But and you know, it’s interesting, sometimes when we talk to them, they don’t we help them discover things that they didn’t even realize. So, ladies, I know we have Beth here, I think we have Rebecca here. Or maybe Rebecca had to go. But I really want you to take to heart what Kayla just said on these personal interviews, even more important than surveys tried to do that, especially if you’re in the early stages of your business. Yeah. To fully understand kind of where they are and what they’re looking for. Really, yeah, what their real problems are versus what we think they are. So I love that. And I think sometimes we almost look to ourselves to just know, this owner, I would just know all these things at the top of my head. But I think we’re really able to be customer centric, not only in the way that you are creating your messaging, but also in every other way of connecting with your clients and making sure that all of your offers make sense with what they are creating, I think that that’s just going to be the best way to go. So I love all of your thoughts, Judy. And I think that’s a really important thing to hear no matter where you’re really at in your business.

That’s great. Awesome. Yay. All right. Um, so yes, as you mentioned, Judy, the next part is talking about competitors. And I always add a caveat here, especially when I’m talking with my clients that, of course, we we want to be able to do competitor research, market research, all of those things are really helpful. But I like to tell my clients peruse through those things, but do not sit with them. Because what often happens is that we will feel like, okay, our competitors are doing really well, maybe, you know, sometimes I’ll hear from people Oh, they’re like the absolute inspiration of what I want to be able to do and the hard part of courses that we don’t want to seem just like our competitors, because, I mean, it’s all the cheesy things that we know about, it’s so much better to be you than somebody else. So that’s why I like to spend a little bit of time just understanding what your competitors are doing. And if there are any, I guess, holes, so to speak, that are that are not being filled, or needs that are not being met right now that your competitors are missing.

So that can be a helpful place to start, rather than looking at all the things that your competitor is doing, right, because I think that can start to kind of fuel the comparison in us. And instead, I like looking at it as what are some of those areas of opportunity that maybe our competitors are not pursuing right now that that we have an opportunity to do, especially if we feel inspired in that specific area. So that’s something that I like to hear about. I also asked for some competitor links. Sometimes I think that that can be a helpful thing for me as a copywriter just to be able to see, but I never base anybody’s website strategy based on what’s what somebody else is doing. It’s always just helpful for me to just be able to see, okay, these are the other people who are in kind of a similar market space, this is how they’re marketing themselves. Okay, it’s, it’s probably easier for me to tell what some of these differentiators are going to be for that client. So that’s kind of where I like vendors to stick and stay. I like to almost put it in a box like, Okay, this is helping me in the way that I needed to and then I need to move, move on to a lot of other details that are more specific to my business.

Yeah. So if you compare us and yes, you and I are exactly on target for that I always say to my clients once, maybe twice a year, look at your competitors, and move on and then keep the blinders on Don’t worry what they’re doing because you should be doing you should be that thought leader that you Yeah, care what anybody else is saying because you have a unique perspective. And I think we tend to think well how can I do it differently it just real quickly, then I want to be quiet. But I told the ladies yesterday in the retreat group, I said, You know what, there’s nothing new under the sun. There’s virtually virtually nothing new under the sun. God tells us that in His Holy Word. So don’t worry about coming up with something cutesy or creative because sometimes that can like be a turnoff, because then people don’t understand that cute word you just coined, but it’s about what are you standing on? Like, I love how you Say identify the gap, you know, what are those opportunity areas for you and then go all in on that. So this is really super, I love it

awesome and even to make it more practical especially since you’re talking about social media a lot with the retreat coming up, I love being able to follow along with some of the work of other copywriters that are in my field because, you know, it’s the whole community over competition, which is really important to me. But I have been really specific about like actually hiding most of the copywriters that I know from my stories, the reason why is because I say, okay, like I can see updates in my feed that that feels okay to me. But if I was to watch what every copywriter is posting about every single day, in those like 24 hour cycles, I think I’d probably talk myself out of any idea I’ve ever had. So right. And so I think we forget sometimes that we can curate and tailor the content not only that we’re creating but also that we’re consuming. And I think if we’re being more mindful about how we’re consuming, especially things from our competitors, we’re able to have a little bit more distance, rather than having that competitors, content and all the things that make them them make it seem like it’s more of a reflection of what we need to be when that’s not the case.

Wow, well said. I couldn’t agree more. Awesome. So we talked a little bit about that. But then when you’re looking at those opportunity areas, like we were talking about duty, then it can be a little bit easier to think about what your differentiators are. And that is really just a fancy marketing term for talking about what makes you unique, what sets you apart from somebody else who’s maybe doing something similarly. So sometimes people will say that their differentiators may be the niche, the specific market that they’re in, but I would actually push back on that and say that’s a little bit more of a part of your mission statement. And you know, just the the audience that you’re serving and the way that you’re able to serve them, and your expertise and some of those sorts of things. But your differentiators can be anything from the specific education style that you have. If you’re somebody that really loves to educate your clients.

Again, like the way that you guide people through your process, maybe you have a signature process that you’re really well known for. I know for myself, I have a specific way of getting to the end goal of my website copywriting that isn’t necessarily something that a lot of other copywriters do. And I love that because that’s how I do my best work. And so that’s one of my differentiators. Another differentiator Of course, and I would love to see more people own this are the differentiators around their personality. I’m somebody that with my hands. I’m somebody that has like the wildest facial expressions. And I own that. And I think when we’re able to start to pick up some of those personality, things about ourselves that maybe the world sees as quirks, those are the things that we’re going to become a little bit more known for, remembered for, I suppose. And so it’s really helpful to think about it that way too, instead of making it all about your brand, because at the end of the day, especially for most of us who are in this group, people are working with us because they make a connection with us. And so if you’re able to tap into some of those fun kind of differentiators about yourself, too, and understanding more of the style that you communicate in, whether it’s through writing through speaking all of those things, it can be a really valuable thing to work into your messaging and your copy too.

So on the things that make you different. I know the world tells us that. I mean, especially right when you’re growing up in grade school and high school, you’re kind of told to be like everybody else and blend in and not really make a scene and those things. But I think we’ve noticed, especially from influencers in the field. If you if you take a look at them, you’ll realize that a lot of them are are very personally personality driven people and it’s because they just know exactly how to tap into their kind of natural personality.

And I think that we can learn a lot from them when we’re thinking about, okay, how can we weave that into the other types of like tangible differentiators we have about our actual product experience? All of those things, too. Wow my brain is just exploding with ideas right now, Kayla, okay, you are phenomenal. Okay. Yeah. The reason why I fell in love with you, and you were over delivering, like times a million so I just, I’m smiling ear to ear because blown away so alright, keep on going sister. Awesome. Um, yeah, so we kind of talked about why somebody might want to hire you over another competitor. That’s again another differentiator and we can talk a little bit about you know, value propositions to that’s a term that’s used all the time. I see differentiators and value props as very similar.

Sometimes they almost seem to be the same thing. Value props are usually Just something that people put into maybe a sentence or two, whereas differentiators are more of a bulleted point list of some of the things that people are going to kind of recognize you for or know you for whether that’s around your expertise, personality, all the things we just described. So just to kind of give you an idea of that, and, again, if you want to look up any of these terms, and go really in depth with them, Google is a great resource to Yeah, just to kind of allow us to keep moving on one of the questions that I love that I actually didn’t start asking in my business until a few years ago, is where do you feel like you add the most value in your business? So that’s not necessarily just you internally, in your own business. But what I mean by that is, when somebody hires you, where do you feel like you’re adding the most value. So something that’s very interesting to me is while I am hired for copywriting, as you’ve mentioned, Judy, I actually think I add the most value is strategy. And so it’s interesting to me, because I understand from the clarity that I’ve gained over the years from my copywriting clients is that while they may come to me for copywriting, they leave feeling even more confident in my strategy capabilities. But from a messaging perspective, I need to make sure that copywriting is always still something that people know that I’m doing.

Because if I just did strategy, there’s not too many people who are going to go out and just hire a website strategist, people aren’t necessarily searching for that, right? If we’re talking about SEO, and we’re talking about all of those things that go into marketing, it can be really helpful to know Okay, this is obviously what people are searching for, and are looking for. But how do I, again, based on where I add the most value? How do I bring in some of those skills, that expertise, the things that I can tell inside my own process, because I’ve been working at it enough to see like my clients light up at a specific stage, that should be a good indicator to you that you should weave more of that into your messaging, while still making sure the foundation of what they’re actually looking for at the end of the day, those tangible things are still there. So I really like asking that question about like, again, we talked about core values, what matters to you. But also, like, I think communicating your value starts with understanding where you got the most value that you’re giving to them. Yeah, where are you shine?

Okay, yeah. And would you agree that that would come from, again, those conversations with clients who are in love with you? And they say, oh, my goodness, I didn’t even realize that for you, I would get X, Y, or Z? Absolutely,
yes. And so you might end up finding that maybe you are somebody that is helping them with, let’s just say, a social media manager, but you end up finding that so many of your clients say, I can’t believe how much value I get from just the strategy calls of what we meet Well, in the end, they’re still paying you for social media management. But those strategy calls should be a huge part of how you are kind of selling your services, because you can tell that your clients really enjoy them.

So maybe instead of it just being a bullet point on your list, you end up seeing that and going oh, I am adding a lot of value to my clients in that area, maybe I’m going to break down exactly what’s inside those strategy sessions, talk a little bit more, almost weave a story around it and talk about maybe a specific client that went through that process with you add a testimony at the end. Of course, that’s that’s going into the weeds a little bit. But there’s a lot of opportunities, once you understand actually where you add the most value. And again, like you’re saying duty, it does not have to be something where you just come up with it off the top of your head, a lot of times, it’s most valuable for you to either go to those kind of like ideal clients that you’ve already worked with, and interview them or kind of ask some of those strategic questions.

But you can also just start to remember while you’re in the process with other clients to now that you know some of these questions to ask, and to be thinking about, you can start to notice certain things. And that’s what I love. I love that about business where you just, it’s like you’re learning the art of noticing all the time ever you are meeting with business owners, you can just use it as Intel, for everything that you’re doing. So if you have something where there’s a note that somebody says during the call, where they go, Oh my gosh, like this is so much better than I imagined. Like, Judy, even when you were saying, Oh my gosh, this is over delivering. I’m immediately right now telling myself okay, where is she saying that? And why is she saying that?

And those are the types of things that are going to allow you to gather that Intel so when you’re asking yourself these questions, it just like comes to mind right away you go, Oh, I remember when that client said this about, about me or about my process and stuff. I should probably think about putting that into my messaging if it’s not there right now. So yeah. And along those same lines, as we’re as we’re talking about social media content, yeah. Marketing, it’s about people. So many women say I don’t know what to talk about. Okay, content moment. What can we do about that a client has said wow, this is where your masterful, okay, and how can I even talk about one thing and break it down into like five posts or five different subtopics. I mean, our content is right there, it’s yours to come to you in the shower. It’s things that people, you know, share with you when you’re working with clients. So I love your idea of the art of noticing that that’s another nugget that you’re dropping. Thank you for that.

Really, yeah, I feel like I am, I’m always humbled by how much I don’t notice that. When I, when I start to lean into that a little bit more, I go, Oh, I probably I should, I should think about that. And I actually create what I call on my computer sunshine folder. And it is screenshots of not necessarily just like testimonials, or things that I get, but it’s also very, very small comments from people that will maybe say something about the specific style of my video on a Instagram story. Or maybe they said something, just about my speaking style, or whatever it ends up being. And that tells me Okay, maybe that’s something for me to refer back to in these kind of moments. Again, when I mean, it’s nice to look at them and or on a rainy day, I won’t lie about that. That was the reason why I started doing that. But I also think that it’s a really great place for you to be able to remember some of those things, again, where people are going out of their way to tell you that they’re resonating with something, we should probably be paying attention to that and you know, organizing it in a file folder can be helpful.

So then you don’t feel like you’re going all the way back through your inbox again, or trying to remember that dm that somebody told you, it’s just it becomes a part of your process. And it just pumps you up a little bit too, which never heard of that the sunshine folder, create your sunshine folder, ladies folder forever, I love it. Awesome. Um, so some of the last things we’ll talk about here are, of course, things around your audience. And I know that this is something that you guys talk about all the time, Judy. So we won’t necessarily dive too deep into all the things. But I will say that the vast majority of people that I work with do a lot more work with their demographics and their psychographics. And so there might be some of you who understand the difference between those two things. But if not, I’m just going to walk through super quickly. Your demographics are the very specific external things about your audience that are helpful for you to know. So these are things like your age, range, gender, education level, location, income level, some of those types of things.

So those are kind of what we would consider like the very bare minimum kind of basics to know about your clients. But if you think about it, right, if you say, Okay, I know that I want to connect with somebody who is maybe a woman in her 30s, who’s living in an urban area, who is maybe college educated with a bachelor’s degree, at least AI and has an income level of, let’s say, $75,000, or above, how much does that really tell us about that person, like, it does help to get a little bit more specific like that. But we need so we need to know so much more beyond just that part of you know, the customer avatar, customer profile, all those different things that we talked about. So that’s why it’s really important to go really deep into the psychographics. And like we’re talking about, you can go deeper into them when you’re doing those interviews, or those surveys or the things where you’re going out of your way to learn more about your audience members.

And I really love being able to talk to the clients that we’ve already worked with, especially if they’ve been a good experience, because they’re going to be a more accurate representation of who we want to work with in the future. Rather than just sending like a mass survey out to let’s say, a Facebook group that has no idea actually what we do, and has no connection to us. I mean, that can be nice for market research. But I think when we’re going into the depths of like, who your ideal client is, I don’t know about you guys, but I feel like anytime I’ve seen surveys where it’s just to a mass audience, it’s just like the shiny object syndrome and all the different outlier with opinions can just be all over the place, and it doesn’t necessarily help. So I think doing even three, like picking three up to three customers or clients that you’ve worked with before where you know, it’s been a good experience, and you feel like looking back, you would want to work with somebody like them again, like spend some more time really talking with them understanding some of the things about which will go on to next, which is kind of some of your ideal clients pain points, struggles.

And I know this is something I always want to add some caveats to because you know, when we especially as believers are talking about copyrighting, it’s difficult because we know that pain points are important for us to address and to understand that are there but I also know that we want our faith to be able to guide us in terms of not necessarily agitating them to a point where people are making decisions out of fear, rather than making them out of a place of really like positivity and feeling uplifted. And feeling empowered. And I think what’s so tough about the copywriting industry is, as a whole, it can kind of get a bad rap for using a lot of those pain point agitations, where people feel like they’re almost guilted or shamed into making certain investments in themselves, or investments in other products that are sold as quick fixes and those sorts of things. So I think really, as believers, we are meant to be set apart from some of these world tactics. And we need to also stand firm and knowing that God is going to be able to get us further than these specific taxes are going to even if they have the numbers behind them.

I’m a huge believer in that. And so I tried to be super mindful and intentional, anytime I’m writing about pain points, where I like to think of it as like I’m addressing them at a distance. So that my, my audience and my client knows that I understand kind of what they’re going through. But at the same time, I’m not digging into the emotion of it. I’m not like kind of tinkering with the pain of it, I’m just addressing that it’s there, and then allowing them to know that because I know that it’s there, I really want to create a solution for them, that’s going to help them in the midst of that. And I think especially when we’re talking about coaches and consultants and people who are really helping people with the depths of those things, I think we have to be even more careful in some of those industries, too. So that’s just a caveat as something to think about. In copywriting. We kind of call that like the ethical sales world. But I love that there’s being more conversations about this, there needs to be even more. But I really wanted to add that in because we talk about pain points all the time.

And I’m sure this is not the first time that a lot of people on the call or are watching this replay have heard that language before. But I think there’s a better way for us to go about it than a lot of the training that’s out there for copywriting. That is so good. And I never even thought about that. So I again, I am I am falling madly in love with you, Kayla, even more than I thought because, you know, I just have to say this. And I know we’re we’re the hours coming quickly to an end here. But I just have to emphasize this. We are called to be set apart. Yeah, are called to do things differently. And we don’t have to panic.

We never have to fear we never have to come from that place of oh my gosh, you know, God is the best strategist, number one, the Lord God Almighty, and the Lord God can quick in the hearts and minds of those that you’re meant to serve without you beating them over the head with these tactics that the world will say you need to do in order to make money. So Wow, this is just so so good. Kayla, thank you.I’m so glad you said that too. Because I think even to make it more specific, because you’re saying like quick in the hearts. And I think something that we see a lot of times in copywriting that works really well is just this concept of urgency. We know that when people kind of have like a limited time offer or a deadline or something like that, that it can help people feel more confident with buying. And so I definitely am not somebody that says don’t do any urgency things at all. I’m just saying what’s a more mindful way to go about it? So some things that you’ll see are almost these, how do I want to say this, these limited time offers that aren’t actually limited time offers, they’re just making you think that they are that you have to make a decision fast, but you actually could go to a different page and still get the same thing.

Those are the types of things I think as believers we go, Okay, that’s something that other people are maybe using. But maybe there’s another way that we can create a more healthy sustainable view of urgency. So something that I’ve I’ve had clients do before that I think is fantastic is if you have a limited time, offer for a product and you want to have that kind of close, lock, or iba ends up being that is a great thing. Something that you can offer is maybe a free 15 minute consultation call where you can ask people, Hey, I know this is only on limited time. If you’re not exactly this is the right investment for you right now.

Or if you feel like you still have some questions that you want to answer that aren’t answered in the sales page, how about let’s just jump on a quick call with one another. And then from there, you’re going to be able to understand a little bit more about that customer give them that personalized care. And that helps them make a more informed decision during a time of urgency that’s going to still feel good to them rather than it feeling like it has to be a rustic rushed decision where they don’t really know exactly what to choose, and they feel like they’re going to miss out on something. So yeah, I think that’s just one specific way to look at urgency. But I just love when you’re talking about how God can click in the hearts of the people that are like meant for us to serve. Because that is that is so true. We don’t necessarily have to use the same tactics that everybody else does just because we’re reading enough case studies about how they work. I really do believe that we have an opportunity actually to stand out. And, you know, with the success that God brings us in that abundance, it gives us an opportunity to share. We didn’t have to do it like everybody else, which I think is just such an amazing place to be.

Absolutely. And I think that as Christians, hey, let’s walk our talk. Yeah, really do what we say we believe, and say God moves, and he does the impossible. And so I’m not worried. I’m not concerned, I’m doing my due. But I’m allowing God to do his and I’m trusting him to do exactly that. So that’s really beautiful.
It’s so good. And I love that it can be something that we think about, even in this stage, where it’s kind of some of the behind the scenes things that we’re gathering.

But I write we all know what happens, like privately in the darkroom, so to speak, is that are the things that are going to be shining when we’re out in the light. So I do think it’s really great for us to think about these things, especially when it comes to some of the more nitty gritty things about copywriting, like pain points, like urgency, like these specific tactics, where we want to make sure that we’re always approaching it from a very, like strong faith perspective, but also just understanding the ethics of these things. And not everybody, of course, before going through business is going to go through like ethics, training, and all of those different things. But I know for me, I have a background in public relations. And so ethics is a huge part about kind of like what you go through and what you do. So I think some of that is just kind of ingrained in me to look for that and to go, how can we maybe go about this differently. But still kind of take the pieces of this, that that work, and that are really great, but just enhance the things that are that are awesome, and then leave the things out that don’t necessarily fit us.

So just remember that anytime that you’re reading through, especially another entrepreneur success story of their launch, or these things, take everything that you see with a grain of salt, and remind yourself that there are certain things that other people may do that’s specific to them. And that’s totally fine. We can still learn from some of those things, but always stay true to what you feel like, you know, like the Holy Spirit is leading you to because that’s going to be I mean, you can’t even call it a success tactic. I mean, he is just going to be able to guide you through everything. Amen. Amen. And you know, can I still say the devil is messing with your Wi Fi? So you a little bit cut up there. But yeah, we know the Holy Spirit. You know, we Christians hear what you’re saying. And those that aren’t, maybe they’re being repelled. But greater is He that is in me that is in the world hallelujah. And so I just love this. So thank you so much Kayla. This is so so good.

Yes, absolutely. And so the last thing that we’ll talk about today, before we kind of, um, see if there’s any questions and wrap up is, you know, now that we’ve talked a little bit about what our ideal clients are struggling with maybe what they’re currently walking through, it’s really great, of course, for us to understand, okay, how our offer is going to be solutions to those things. So usually, what I like to do is when clients are giving me a list of kind of problems, pain points, whatever word we want to use to describe those things, I usually like to have them create or create a list of the different offers that they have, and almost create a mind map so to speak, or something where they’re able to start connecting, okay, this specific offer is best serving this problem or pain point. And it just is a good way for you to be able to remember that each specific thing that a client is walking through, that you have an answer to that through one of your offers.

And if you find that there’s maybe a pain point that you listed, where it doesn’t neatly fit into any of those offers, it’s a good opportunity for you to say if like, ask yourself, if you want to actually meet that? And if so what could that potentially look like. So you might be able to create another offer, that might be able to fit people in that area that you can test with and see if it’s something that you want to add eventually to your kind of suite of offerings, so to speak. But those are just good things to think about when, you know, we’re again, not wanting to leave people in a problem. And just to say, Okay, these are all the things that you’re going through and like dumping on them or beating them over the head, like you were saying, Judy, you want to be able to show that there’s kind of a light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak with your solution and your offer, but you want to make sure that there’s positive and uplifting, or language around the whole entire thing. So people don’t feel like they’re going into the depths of their emotion before they’re coming out the other end making an informed decision about how they want to purchase.

That’s really good. So um, I do have a follow up question with that. And then I think we have, I can’t really see who’s here, but I would say Margie and Beth are probably here, but help me Can you give us an example of what you just talked about with the solutions and as you’re looking at it an alternative solution? I didn’t quite follow that. So
can you get Yeah, absolutely. So I’m thinking let’s say that somebody He came to me. And one of their problems was going to be that they want it. So they wanted to create a website. But one of their problems is that they just have no way to consistently connect with their audience. So something that tell that that tells me is that, okay, they’re probably looking for an ongoing partnership. So some a service that looks like that. And then they’re also probably looking for some type of nurturing content, whether that would be maybe email marketing content, or maybe that looks like having me help them with blog content writing. So I could maybe say, Okay, my blog content writing can help with that.

But I’ve actually phased out the email marketing side of my business. So maybe I would look at that and say, oh, okay, so maybe I’m helping people a lot more with website related pain points than I am specifically with the email marketing side of things. But is there some type of maybe day rate, or intensives, or something where I can kind of satisfy that pain point that I’m hearing so often from clients that are really needing because consistency after a big one time project, like a website, but at the same time, it may not necessarily, you know, be something that I want to have as my specialty. So it just kind of depends, that’s just kind of one example off the top of my head. But something that I do want to make sure that I say is that not every single pain point is your responsibility to solve. And I think that that’s a really, really important thing for us. Because there are a lot of people who are in the middle of a lot of different challenges. And I think it’s really great for us to walk alongside our clients and the ones that we feel best equipped to help.

But we don’t necessarily need to help people with every single thing that they could possibly bring us. I think that that can actually lead us to more of that scarcity, or feast and famine mode, where we feel like we’re just constantly have to taking on any type of project or any person that comes our way, I do believe that we can still be really well informed believers while being discerning of the people that we’re working with. And so just remembering to yourself that when you’re looking at the different challenges that your audience is going through, you can also think about what do you feel the best equipped to help people based on your experience based on your expertise and your personality, and so many of those other things, because it’s also really great to think more abundantly in the sense of Okay, maybe you have somebody in your network that actually has a fantastic solution that already exists for this. So in that same example, if I feel like consistently, I don’t have even maybe the time in my calendar to be able to solve that pain point, well, that’s totally fine. I can send that person over to a referral, feel really awesome about it, and know that I served them, even if it was only for that small timeframe of bringing them to somebody else. So again, this these are just all different kind of mindset ways to start thinking about the challenges and the solutions that we’re specifically offering.

Wow, this is that is so good. I mean, I’m just like blown away. I can’t wait to get to the next two parts of this. But how about we unshare the screen so that we can see who’s here? Yes, that sounds so much. And I don’t know if I would love for you to put the link for your Google whether it’s just this part we talked about or the whole darn thing. Margie Beth, what questions just been like mind blowing? Or am I just like, I don’t know.

I’m really disappointed that I I got in here so late because I I know it’s good. I can’t wait to hear the replay. But you know, it’s good because I was at a listing appointment, and I got the listing. So that’s man, I have to say that it’s all because I dialed down. I found them. They found actually, they found me through my website where it was very targeted to the 55 plus person. It’s awesome. They read my entire website. They were telling me what was on the website. That is great to hear like, yeah, totally awesome. I’m so happy. I look. I mean, I just came back. And they were, I mean, it’s gonna be awesome. So I’m just so thrilled about that. So I can’t wait to hear to get back into this and hear everything that’s going on here. So that was my victory and my my plug for the you know, dialing down to your ideal client and speaking to them.

Yeah, the importance of really not being afraid. We’re Christians. We’re not afraid. Oh, we will be confident and say, Lord, who am I? Who am I and who do you want me to serve? And we’re going to boldly go there so Beth had to do you think about today?

Well, I’m I’m so sorry that I’m late. First of all, I would have been here earlier but I had a work meeting that went late but everything I heard was so good, and I I started I don’t know, if you saw me I took like page and page and top of my head more than anything, because it was so good. And then I have times where I have to go back through because there’s so many nuggets, Kayla It was so yeah, so tough to, to go back in that sunshine folder and learning the art of listening. I wrote that down as soon as you said that, that is just so many things. Yeah.

And when you’re talking about demographics, and psychographics, and you said that more people focus on the demographics. I thought I don’t I thought him is that what am I doing that wrong? And then you said like, yes. Like, yes, I am today on that. But anyways. Yeah. And my win is I’ve got four people in my juice cleanse. Hey. So yeah, with Yes, all around. I’m really great. So thank you. Oh, what did you come back? Did you mention that? We’re doing a clubhouse on Monday? Or you didn’t? I thought we were when were we going to mention it? But we’re doing a clubhouse on Monday. Yeah. Awesome. We talk about it at the group coaching.

Okay, real quick. Are you able because we’re gonna let Kayla go, but are you able to because you scheduled this clubhouse? I believe you have a link. So please, please post that in the academy posted out.
I, um, I think Beth has to follow me so that I can add her as a moderator and then her picture will show up on it. And as soon as we do that, I will send it over. That’s awesome. All right, Alicia, you’re coming in on the end of this and I’m so sorry. Maybe it’s the standard time that messed you up. But this was a power packed our sister and go crazy over this content. Kayla. I just, I just love you. I’m going to dm you right now, actually. And ladies, thank you for being here. Kayla. You’re amazing.

The Lord God is blessing you richly. And I’m just so thankful that you’re here. Yeah, thank you so much. You guys. This is really fun. Especially because so many times I send this questionnaire but it’s been a long time since I’ve really explained the reasons why. So it’s been kind of fun for me to because I feel like going through all these questions has made me feel even more confident. like yeah, that’s the reason why I send this out to people. powerful stuff. And so once again, thank you, Kayla, ladies, as you watch the replay, post your questions and thank you all have a beautiful rest of your day. Bye guys.

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