Ep 92: The ‘Real Deal’ About Social Media Strategy to Get Visibility Transcript

Hey, ladies, welcome to another episode of The she is extraordinary podcast. I’m with Karen Albert. She is the president of behind your curtain. She is the expert on all things social media. So welcome, Karen.

Thank you, Judy, so much. I’m so grateful to be here and be a guest on your show. Thank you for the opportunity.
Sure, sure. We’re so blessed ladies, grab your pencil and pen or pad, whatever you’re gonna want to take notes because Karen is, like I said, she knows her stuff. And so we get into the social media step things, you know, the important tips and strategies and advice. Let’s get to know you, Karen. share a little bit of your background, because I it’s sure, it’s an interesting story.

Yeah, thank you. So I’m originally born and raised in Los Angeles, California. And my whole past life, I call it his corporate world, I never even knew that I had a entrepreneurial bug in me. But my past life working for the corporate world, I actually worked for a software company based out of Santa Monica for like, almost 16 years and background being sales and marketing. So, you know, when in the mid 2000s, when Facebook came on the scene, I was absolutely fascinated by it, because it was like, you know, old traditional marketing ways, we had to write our copy, and then handed over to the distribution magazine, radio, TV, and we were subject to and getting out in front of their audience on their schedule, and we had to pay them. So when Facebook came on the scene, I was absolutely fascinated by the fact that we could write our message and put it out in front of anybody whenever we wanted, and it was free. So we, we actually became, we’re known as one of the early adopters of the private Facebook groups. So we use those for our clients.

So different verticals of the software, they were able to kind of talk to each other and cut the support costs down by like 40%. So that was a really successful implementation of that. And I was, you know, feeling really good about myself, but I was making other people a whole lot of money. Which I think anybody can, you know, that’s ever worked for someone else can totally relate to that. And, and then in 2010, my mom, she was like, my best best everything we live together, she helped me raise my daughter, I was helping her with her husband had Alzheimer’s, and I lost her to cancer in three months. And that literally, just like I ripped my world apart. And, and it really was, I mean, she was such an inspiration. She was a federal court judge. I mean, her story alone is like, so inspiring. So I really kind of, I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced anything like that, but I literally had to learn how to live again, without her.

And as a result of that, everything, all my priorities just totally shifted. And, and I felt like I wanted to find some purpose in the pain. And so I parted ways with the software company. And I decided to just do some soul searching and figure out what I wanted to do. I really didn’t know what it was, I just felt so overwhelmed and consumed with her absence, that it was kind of all I was sort of able to just get through a day, you know. And so, my next door neighbor, dear friend, she has a nonprofit organization wings of love with helping women with dealing with domestic violence. So she comes up to me and she says, well, you’re not doing anything and and I’ve got a fundraiser and you know, that Facebook thing, and I need your help. And she really didn’t give me the opportunity to say no. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, what the heck. So fast forward 90 days, she had the event that was a total success. She raised lots more money than anticipated and the real estate agents that donated the space for that event came up to me and said, so how much could we pay you to help us with our social media? And that was literally how it started. And I was like,
I am gonna get right back to you on that.

Yeah, and that was opportunity knocking and I I look back on that now. And that proposal that I put together, I just I giggle about it. Because it was like, you know, I get was giving everything away for like nothing, you know. So that was, gosh, I mean, 10 years ago, I can’t even believe that it is gone. That fast. But that was Yeah, so and then I was helping. My daughter was in musical theater and I was helping them do some promote. And I was also taking some video and some photos and, and I did a promo video for their next theater production that was coming out. And after one of the shows, the director of the show came up and we were talking to one of the the people that had watched the show and she put her arm around me and she said, this is Karen, she’s, you know, she’s the one that’s been behind the curtain. And I was like, Oh, I like that name. So I go on to GoDaddy and I buy and I want behind the curtain calm is not available.

I like okay, behind my curtain calm No, behind your curtain. And that was available. And now in hindsight, I’m so grateful. Because that’s really what I am when clients hire me. I am behind your curtain. I may look at make it look like you. But it’s actually me behind your curtain. So that’s how that whole thing kind of started. So me. I mean, God, that is fun. That is so neat. How like God was like, Okay, yeah, you don’t know this. But I know to what you think is good. So I can give you better. Exactly.

Absolutely. rejection is protection. I love it. Well, I have a funny question. Okay. So 10 years ago, yes. started down this entrepreneurial journey. Was that pre Facebook ads? Oh, that’s a good question. I think so. I don’t think they had advertising yet. Ah, I’m thinking a little blurry. A little while ago. Yeah, it was a while ago. Yeah. Um, yeah, it really was. Yeah, that functionality was so limited back then. Yeah. But that was, you know why what makes me laugh is because, you know, I was, I don’t know what I think I was teaching in one of my paid courses this week. And I mentioned, you know, we all say you need to grow your email list. Because if social goes away, and everybody thinks, oh, socials never gonna go away. And I said, Well, wait a minute, think about Facebook, when you first got on, I joined in Oh, eight. And back, then your Facebook business page was getting all the eyeballs on it for free, they set you up, like, you know, and that went away. Now it’s opened up your wallet, or maybe three people see it. So anyway, it just made me chuckle that I can’t even imagine, you know what that was like, in the business world way back when?

Well, you know, and the thing that I’m so grateful for is that, and what I think really makes me so unique. And what I do is that from the very beginning, when I looked at social media, I looked at it as a similar platform, like I had been using, like I was referencing the TV and the radio ads, and anything that you have as a marketing mechanism, you have to have a strategy first. And so any clients that hire me, as you know, we have to have the strategy call, we’ve got to get clear on who are we trying to attract? And what what are we going to say to attract them? What’s their needs? It’s sort of marketing 101. And so I’ve always brought that in the services that I offer. Facebook is just a marketing platform. Instagram is just a marketing platform.

So you have to understand, how do we use these to maximize the use of it? Now, obviously, we didn’t have things like algorithms in magazines, right? So I, but it’s, if you understand how they work. It’s brilliant. And we have such an incredible opportunity to leverage them. I mean, Facebook is spending millions of dollars on monitoring everyone’s behavior, so they can profile them. And we can leverage all of that money that they’re invested in.

That’s what I get really excited about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. See, because even though I’ve had businesses since Oh, three, I really never took my business to Facebook. Until really like after 2015 I don’t know where what I was thinking, but I. Yeah, that was like back then. Um, all right. Well, I’m curious. You know, you mentioned in the notes, when I asked what you wanted to chat about today, that there were many, many mistakes that are brought you to this massive success that you have. And so here you are, like I said, You’re the guru. You’re the go to person across all these different platforms. So I think that’ll be good for our listeners to see that mistakes is part of the process.

Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. But and you know, so when I started behind your curtain, I got so excited, and I literally was trying to be everything. Everybody, what do you need, you need a website, you need a logo, I got it. And I and if I couldn’t, and I, and then I hired all these people. So I had project managers and consultants. And I mean, and I’m done, I was broke, all the money that was coming in was going right back out again. And, and I just really got to a point where I fired everybody. And it just went down to me. And I was like, Okay, I got to build this very slowly. And one of the biggest lessons that I learned was, I am no longer going to assume what the consumer needs, I’m basically going to ask what they need, first and foremost, and I’m going to hone in on that. And I’m going to become an expert at that. Now, could I do a website? Yes. But I would say no. And I would hand it off to an expert that I knew that could do it. Because I wanted what I was really wanting to offer. I wanted to become an expert, and I wanted it to be a well oiled machine.

And I had to eliminate the distractions. And I have clients to this day that still come to me asking me for, you know, oh, I need a logo, or I need a website, or I need things. Yeah, I can absolutely do that. But if I had continued to focus on all these other things, I wouldn’t be able to sit here confidently in front of you today and say, This is what I do. And I’m really good at it. Because this is what I have focused on. And it’s also I mean, you know, I kind of chuckle with God all the time, like, okay, really social media, like, Okay, I guess, but it is, that’s the gift he’s given me. And but you know, you can go back in hindsight, like you were saying, and really see that I’ve made, I’ve made some amazing connections. And and I know that I have made a difference, because I’ve been able to help people actually make successful businesses and make some money and change their life as a result of understanding how to use something like social media. But yeah, I mean, lots of mistakes. Were me just saying, Yes, a lot of times when I should have said, No, that was, and even to clients, I gotta say, there was a big shift that happens the first time I fired a client, and the first time.

That’s a good lesson, I’m sure. It’s a good lesson. And you know, it’s funny, because we have such incredible instincts, as women, we really do. And we don’t listen to it enough. And I have gotten to a point now where I will be halfway through a zoom, preliminary leave, call consultation. And I’ll be like, I don’t even want to sell to this person, I’m not even going to offer my services, or I’ll make it a price that will just be waiting for them. Because I get, I get to be picky, I get to decide who I want to work with. I want to work with people that are not going to value me that they’re going to nickel and dime me they’re going to be high maintenance, they’re not going to want to follow my instructions. Like, you’re going to hire me for a specific reason. I’m the expert.

That’s why you hired me. You’re not. I’m sure you are at other things, but you’re not the expert in social media, or you wouldn’t be hiring me. And I had a client one time he was a financial advisor investments. And yeah, I mean, he just was rude to me. He was rude in his emails, he was ungrateful. He had to chase him to pay his bills. And he was just never happy. He just wasn’t a happy person. And I basically just said, over, I’m eliminating this, we’re not working together anymore. And the contract is over. And I wish you all the best. And he was so shocked. I don’t know that anybody had done that to him before? Yeah. Like, what do you mean? I just said, No, I, I’m, I’m sorry. Clearly, I cannot satisfy your needs. And I’m thinking inside like, I don’t really know that anybody could, but
not my problem. Right? relationship. Did he say, Oh, please, please.

Yeah, there. Yeah. and came up with all of these excuses. Like, that’s another thing that I’ve started to pick up on, too, is that if people don’t do what they say they’re going to do, like you give them some grace, right? You understand things happen. But if there seems to be a pattern, and every answer is, you know, oh, like, Well, my dog ate my homework kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah, you’re kind of you get in a sense that I don’t think there’s a whole lot of accountability going on here with this person. And I’m not quite sure that they’re going to follow the instructions. And when people what I have found is that when my clients don’t hold themselves accountable to what they need to do as a part of my program, then they don’t have the success that they should have. And they tend to not really look at themselves as the reason for not having that level of success.
Gotcha.

Yeah, they kind of blame the messenger. And it’s sort of that’s it’s just kind of unfortunate, you know, in that sense, but
that is that is just great advice on so many different levels, because I’m telling my clients and my students all the time and my listeners, ladies, this is your business, you get to say, No, you get to say no to clients, you get to say no to people who you thought were going to be great, but when you hire them or work with them, they’re just not what you thought. I mean, and without you and without like, Oh, absolutely. I mean, it’s a business decision. Right?

Yeah. And don’t be afraid to raise your prices. Ah, man, say it again. Afraid to raise your prices. I was just talking to a woman today before this call, who talked to me a year ago. She didn’t hire me a year ago. My prices are double. And she was like, so is what you’re quoting me. Now, the same thing that you quoted me last year at this other much lower rate? And I said, Yes, ma’am. It is. She was like, man, I should have hired you a year ago. Yes, ma’am.

Yeah, yeah. I love that shadow. Man takes confidence. Yeah. Because, you know, one of the things I don’t want to get sued to sidetrack but this is a really good point, because sales actually turning a prospect to who does like you, and you want to work with them. And converting that into a client takes confidence that, you know, so many ladies that I know, they kind of? What’s the word they pick up? When they talk over price? It’s a very uncomfortable discussion, but it’s only as uncomfortable as you make it. Yeah. So could you speak to that, Karen, at all to help our listeners,
right? Well, absolutely. Because they, they, they pick up on it. And and also, if you if, if you are not confident around what you offer, and the cost associated the price associated to that, even if they do then decide to hire you, they are going to feel as if you they’re going to have the upper hand, and they are going to possibly be able to kind of take charge of the relationship and the circumstance and the situation. And that’s not what you want to be conveying.

I mean, there’s always room right for negotiation. But you don’t want to let them think that when you are quoting your brace, and it all comes down, like you’re saying is the confidence. If you say, Well, okay, so my 30 day program, okay, that’s great. I tell them all about it. And they’re like, so what’s the cost for that? And if I say, Well, you know, the price that I’ve been offering these days is around, you know, a couple thousand dollars. Like, they’re, you’ve lost them, you know, you’ve lost them. You just gotta come out with a number and say, yeah, so this is what it costs. And let’s get going. Let’s get going. Yeah, exactly. Have you got a credit card or we can put it on paper?

That’s great. Yeah. So ladies, look at your pricing. A lot of times we undervalue ourselves, and especially I think, as Christians so many were like, Oh, well, you know, I’m so good at it. Should I really charge that high? Yes. God gave me that gift. God gave you that. That’s right. Yeah.
Well, you didn’t. Yeah, he didn’t bless the one who shoved the money under his mattress. Right.
Right. Right. With the talents? Yeah, the different talents, story? Well, when we talk about social media, I count the ladies to get a really good understanding, Karen, on what exactly? Your clients?

Yeah, thank you. So, um, I kind of alluded to a little bit before as how I’m more of the strategist and the to number, the two, the two primary things that are that sort of cause business owners to not be successful on social media is they don’t have a strategy and they don’t have the step by step instructions on how to actually use social media so that they start to see some return on their efforts. So the the 30 day program starts with me doing a complete strategy session, because I’m also not the one that’s going to say you need to be on every single social media platform. That’s an effort in futility because we need to understand who is your ideal niche client, and you may not know that and that’s okay because we kind of unpack that as a part of the strategy. And, you know, that kind of goes back to marketing one on one, let’s forget about the fact that we’re talking about social media, Facebook or Instagram. Even before social media, right, every single marketing campaign that went out went out with a really clear understanding of who is the consumer that they are trying to attract with this marketing campaign, you got to understand who you have to understand what their needs are, what are their problems, and craft your message around them understanding that you get them, you get their problem, and you have a very great solution.

And you know exactly how to get them from this point A of being, you know, in the pain space to be where they’re going to have whatever it is that you can give them as a result of working with you. So that’s the strategy part, you have to get clear on that, then based on us identifying who is your ideal client, then I will recommend those social media platforms, that’s going to be the most effective to get you in front of that market, because they don’t live on every single social media platform. If you tell me that your ideal client is doctors, I’m going to tell you, let’s, let’s take a deep dive and get you all over LinkedIn. Right? Don’t, don’t do Pinterest, don’t do Twitter. You know, that’s not where they live. And that’s not where you’re going to see some return on your efforts. So then, as a part of the 30 days, my team goes into those social media platforms and optimizes it. So it’s called a 30 day social media facelift.

So we are packing it in with all of the keywords and graphics, high branded graphics, custom videos. I know as a strategist, not only how to help you create a strategy, but I strategically understand how to use the social media platforms. So that you will start to be seeing the algorithms, the formulas, all of that I know how to actually feed those algorithms. So you start to be seen, not by everybody, but by that niche market that you want to be seen by. So that’s when you actually start to see some return on your efforts, you’re getting engagement on your posts, people are reaching out to you you’re generating leads, and and then I teach you. So we have training courses that are recorded through zoom, they’re tailored to your strategy, and teach you very specific proactive ways that you can use things like Facebook and Instagram, to get in front of the demographic that you want to get in front of connect with other businesses that have already done the work of collecting that community that you want to get in front of.

So you’re actually a lot more proactive in your use with social media, as opposed to most of us are reactive, we kind of push posts out and go. Yes, I heard that you like it. Yeah, I love that. eliminate all all of that. And so by the end of the 30 days, platforms, they look really good, very impressive to the eyeballs, the algorithm is paying attention to you. And you just feel much more educated and empowered to be able to manage your social media, you know, yourself, you get step by step instructions, print that out, put that by your computer, grab your coffee, or tea or coffee in the morning, five things on Facebook, you know, two to three or four things on Instagram.

Go money done. Yeah. And then you know, see, that’s what I’m excited about. Yes, I hired Karen. Working together. And I’m a strategist, I’m very logical, you know, former lawyer, well, I’m still a lawyer, but I don’t practice. And so I’m all about strategy. And I tell my ladies, you need to be strategic, you can’t just you have to have a purpose for everything you’re doing. Right? And if it’s like, you know, I’m gonna take a try here, take a try there. I mean, as an entrepreneur, we do try things. But then we track it. We track it, and it’s based on a strategy and then we track and tweak. But when we’re just like, oh, gosh, I didn’t post on Instagram today. I guess I better put something up because it’s better than nothing. Well, I guess that’s kind of true, but don’t expect that much. Right. When you’re not doing it at all.

I call that mistaking activity for progress. Oh, I like that. We do that all day long. Yeah, yeah, I say the busy mistaking the busy being productive. You’re not really being productive. Yeah, that’s awesome. And so um, what are the could you can identify like the three biggest mistakes And though we tend to make on social media, on social media, yes. Okay. Yeah. So, um, and I might sound like a broken record, but the biggest mistake is not understanding the who, and trying to be everything to everybody. And you know, and a big concern that I get a question that I get for my clients is Well, yeah, but if I just trying to target this demographic, then I might be missing out on this other business and and lose it and it’s absolutely the complete opposite.

You know, I decided about four and a half years ago, to practice what I preach and I decided to get real estate Focused Michi as opposed to prior to that I was, yeah, any small business owner or entrepreneur, that means and here’s what happens when you’re in a networking event, right? And you get your elevator pitch opportunity, and you say I do this and, you know, for and you fill in the blank, and I would say, yeah, any, you know, small business owner or entrepreneur that needs help with social media, and they go, huh. But then I went, um, I’m actually transforming the real estate industry by offering strategic social media marketing and lead generation. So the real estate industry, realtors, lenders title, right, anybody that touches that, that’s an ideal lead for me.

So what’s happening now they’re going, Oh, I know a lender, I know, a realtor. So you’re actually making it easier for people to give you leads, give you leads. So every single time, I will walk away with some leads, because I’ve made it really easy for them. That’s exactly the same concept that you’re doing for the algorithm, exact same thing, because the algorithm is monitoring all of the behavior of every single Facebook user. So we can profile that user to get a sense of what is that user like. And then if you are effective enough in your social media marketing on your Facebook page to say, this is exactly who I want to cater to, then the algorithm goes great, I’m going to take your content and match it up with this demographic over here that I’ve spent millions of dollars on monitoring, and I’m going to connect the two of you together. But the problem is, if you’re over here, trying to be everything to everybody, it doesn’t have a bucket of everybody.

Right, the more clear you get on the who, that’s how you get the algorithm to actually start to become a part of your marketing team, as opposed to it going, I don’t know who you are catering to, if you’re trying to be everybody. And what I did, when I switched to about four and a half years ago, the real estate industry as being my focus, niche, tripled my business. 20% of my clients don’t fall into that category. I’m a lost business, my brand became so visible, that it spills out over and people call me and say, Oh, you know, do you do you work with, you know, attorneys, or do you work with massage therapists? And I’m like, absolutely. My program will work for everybody.
That’s what I gotta get clear, right?

Yeah, I love that the ideal client and because I, it’s a stumbling block, and frankly, it used to be a stumbling block for me. You know, I’m just like real estate agents. They’re like, well, I work with anybody with a house. If you need to buy a house, you need to sell a house. I’m like, well, the conversation you’re going to have the first time homebuyer is very different than the luxury area. You know, so all right. Well, that’s Mistake number one. Two other mistakes you see happening on such.

Yeah, and so it kind of ties with that is that you look at what they’re posting. And none of what they’re posting is catered to that particular demographic. It’s all about us, which is traditional, you know, I mean, we’ve looked at it as Oh, yes, I want to tell everybody about me and what I do. And so if they’re interested, they’ll know, right? The thing is, is that imagine how much noise there is coming across in someone’s newsfeed. And what do you stop and respond to what gets your attention? Not stuff that’s about someone’s business or company? It’s the stuff that you’re interested in. Right?

So not about me. Yeah, that’s about you.
Exactly. So once you get clear on the who, then you can get clear on what are they like? What are their interests? What are their hobbies? It’s called the psychographics. How do they spend their money, their time, their hobbies, their interest? You know, do they like to travel? If it’s luxury, homeowners, buyers, sellers, luxury, then you should be posting all about stuff that is about their lifestyle, right? So that’s the second big problem that I see is that they tend to not post content that’s more attractive to the demographic they’re trying to get in front of.
That’s awesome.

And then the third is there’s never an ask, there’s never an app, there’s done here’s what’s going on in the real estate industry. Right?
here’s here’s interest rates. But if you are successful enough in getting their attention to stop and all the noise in the newsfeed so they first our eyes first look at the picture or the video. Then we scan up to look to see what they’ve written about that right? In successful enough and getting their attention on whatever it is that you posted. Why are you not asking them to do something? Right, this link Like, Comment, Share, private message me, give me it’s a call to action you need to because then that drops them a little bit farther down. It’s like that funnel marketing, right?
Yes, yes. I love it. I love it. And this is all it’s pretty basic. And I always say it’s kind of like I think the Guru’s out there selling programs that are just to try to get followers.

And then we wonder why somebody it seems unfathomable that somebody with 100,000 followers, maybe making bacus in a way up, you know, dollars, but monetizing the platform and optimizing your efforts, that is a whole different thing other than just accumulating likes that aren’t engaged. Right. So okay, that is really, really good. Wow, I can’t believe the Time Is Flying. What is he talking about this all day? Because clearly,
I’ll tell you this. I’m very intrigued when you mentioned that, you know, depending on what whom I do client is that you’re going to look at communities that have already been established on somebody else’s dime and time and effort. And we’re going to point them to me, Allah, the algorithm, and whatever strategy you have, that is very exciting to me. Very, very exciting. I mean, I can’t even I mean, I was trying to figure it out for the life trying to figure it out.

But um, but you will, because I’m going to show you so exciting. Well, let me let me let me just ask one more question. And then I want to ask you, whatever, it might still be on your heart that we didn’t cover. And that is, what do you think about Facebook ads? I mean, are they worth it? Or are you more, let’s see what we can do organically.

Yeah, so I’m all about the organic, because there are ways that you can without spending any money really generate leads through social media. So I’m the organic lady. However, that being said, there are times when at paid advertising does really help and work. What I will tell you not to do, because I see this all the time, is that they’ll post on their page, and it didn’t get any engagement. So they throw money at it, to see if it’ll get engagement. That’s actually the complete opposite of what you should do. If you post on your page, and you’re getting a lot of likes and comments and shares and engagement.

That’s the one that you want to put some money on. Because if it’s done well in the community that knows about you, and you’re trying to get in front of one that doesn’t know about you, that’s when you want to put some money behind it. If you’re putting money to take a post that didn’t do well, and those that know about you. And then you’re putting that same post in front of others that don’t know about you. It’s not the money that’s going to actually get you the engagement. Right. It’s kind of like a lipstick on a pig sort of analogy, right? It’s like, let’s look at what’s working organically. And then maybe we put some dollars around to get it in front of a larger community. But it’s sort of it’s kind of doing the organic market testing first.

Gotcha, gotcha. And I’m sure there’s a whole like thing of Facebook ads and how to use them and how to optimize that. Oh, yeah. Fortunately, to talk about, right. Yeah. And so good. And it, it’s funny, you know, it’s kind of sort of basic. But what I found is when you go back to the foundations, and back to the basics, that is like that can be powerful stuff. really sit and think about it. Because just as we’ve discussed, so many are spending so much time and effort on their social media, and they’re getting nowhere for it. Yeah.

You know, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And a lot of, you know, the clients that hire me are ones that have avoided it for a long time, because they just felt like yeah, I’ve tried it. It’s never worked for me. And they can maybe pretty skeptical when we first have our first conversation. But once they start to get them to think about the strategy and the algorithm, and there is a way you need absolutely works. Go look at the reviews on my Facebook business page. It works.

Yes, so um, where can we find you? Where can we find you online? It’s pretty much behind your curtain everywhere. Or Karen, Liz, Albert, Karen was Albert and LinkedIn. But behind your curtain is my Instagram, my Facebook business page name, or behind your curtain.com if anybody on here wants to chat with me about, you know, their social media and putting a strategy together. There’s actually right on my first page of my website, you can just schedule a free consultation call with me and we can chat further about
me recommend it because

Amazing. All right, so So this is called the she is extraordinary podcast. So I would you share with our listeners, you know, an extraordinary woman in your life and what makes her extraordinary.

Oh gosh, It’s always my mom, even though I lost her 10 years ago. Yeah, I mean, she was. She was absolutely extraordinary. And, you know, there’s a story that I tell all the time, which I think is is, has impacted so many women and lives men too. But you know, my mom was never went to college. And she was married to my dad, the two kids, me and my brother, and she was working full time as a legal secretary. And she was about 2930. And the lawyer that she worked for, pulled her into her office and sat her down and said, You have got to go get your law degree, you are way too smart to be a legal secretary. And she was like, I can’t do that. I mean, I, I have to work full time. And I’ve got two kids, and I’d have to go at night. And it would take me five years. I mean, I’d be 35 by the time I graduated, and the lawyer said, Yeah, but you’re gonna be 35 anyways. And she went.

Yeah. So true. Is it great, great story. So she did it.
She did it. She went to law school at night, she found a program. It was a you know, I mean, like, guidelines it all up, right? He lined it up. So that right at that time, there was a brand new program that was being offered by this law school. And it was a beta program. And they were allowing people that did not graduate from college, because most you couldn’t go to law school if you hadn’t had the college degree. And it was this new program. And they were only allowing 10 people in and there was hundreds of applicants. So my mom was one of three women out of the 10, seven males. And the three women all graduated top of class. My mom, however, was valedictorian, and Magna ku mowdy. And, yeah, she went at night, and she worked full time. And all the way up to she got appointed to the federal branch, right before Clinton left
office.

That is, that is a feat. I mean, having gone to Villanova law and saw that, right. Yeah. So getting appointed to the federal bench is a big deal.
Big deal. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So she, she was just Yeah, she was amazing. And I, I I’m so blessed that I had her as a mother. She was such a humble, caring, loving you if you met her outside of when she didn’t have the robe on. She was in her kitchen with a glass of wine in her hand and or, you know, the apron on and half of my friends that would come to my house. I mean, unless you knew her for a while. Had no idea. You know, she treated the gardener the same way that she would treat another judge. She had letters written to her by inmates that she had convicted,
thanking her for how she treated them with respect. She would call them Mr. or Mrs. And yeah, just just a class act. Wow. Yeah. She’s passed that along to her daughter, that’s for sure.

Oh, Karen, thank you so much for joining me today. My pleasure.

All right. Oh, my pleasure, hon. And, ladies, we would love your feedback on this episode. If you have questions. You know, you just heard how you can reach out to Karen you know how to reach out to me, but if you can, if you’re listening on iTunes, would you please take a moment and leave a rating and a review.

We love your feedback and it helps us in our iTunes algorithm. That algorithm. Alright ladies, thank you for listening. We will see you next time. Bye.

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